In his weekly Sunday Show with BizNews, Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM), dissects the “Wrecking Ball” politics that is currently reaching epic levels in South Africa, and talks about some of the politicians who are at the forefront of the political infighting, including Helen Zille, Dr Pieter Groenewald, Herman Mashaba, Panyaza Lesufi, Cilliers Brink…De Beer further comments on AfriForum wanting the Democratic Alliance and the Vryheidsfront Plus to leave the Government of National Unity (GNU) if the BELA Bill is signed into law unchanged. He also gives his take on “The Confessions of a Former Politician” being posted on X by Ronaldo Gouws who was kicked out of the DA and Parliament.

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Highlights from the interview

This conversation between Chris Steyn and Neil De Beer focuses on South African politics, specifically the ongoing infighting within political parties like the Democratic Alliance (DA) and Freedom Front Plus (FF Plus), the criticism of prominent politicians like Helen Zille, and broader tensions between political factions ahead of the 2026 elections. Key topics include:

1. Helen Zille’s Controversial Role: Zille’s involvement is likened to a “wrecking ball” in her interactions with other politicians, notably Dr. Pieter Groenewald of the FF Plus, who criticized her for interfering in efforts to stabilize relations between the FF Plus and DA. The discussion reflects ongoing frustrations with her perceived disruptions, whether through internal politics or public statements.
2. Infighting and Power Struggles: The conversation touches on the broader tensions between political figures such as Herman Mashaba of ActionSA and ANC members, with particular reference to the mayoral leadership in Tshwane. The infighting has undermined service delivery, which the hosts note is a key concern for ordinary citizens.
3. Public Dissatisfaction: The dialogue emphasizes how ordinary South Africans are frustrated with political power games, with citizens primarily focused on basic services like water, sanitation, and electricity. De Beer emphasizes that politicians often fail to prioritize the needs of ratepayers, which contributes to the growing disconnect between the political class and the public.

Overall, the conversation sheds light on the growing political fragmentation in South Africa, the role of key figures like Zille and Groenewald in these disputes, and the frustration that it causes for citizens awaiting functional governance.

Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___

Chris Steyn (00:02.916)

The infighting between South African politicians is reaching epic levels, so much for national unity. We speak to Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement. This is the Sunday Show. Welcome, Neil.

Neil De Beer (00:18.796)

Yeah, very good morning. And I promised I would say a shout out to Maureen, who is apparently one of our biggest supporters of the Sunday Show, who says church in the morning, roast in the afternoon and Chris and Neil in the Sunday late day. That’s the day. So Maureen, hello. And thank you for all the other messages. Since Sundays are now heating up for us, Chris, and I just want to say to everybody, thank you. Yes. So.

Chris Steyn (00:46.594)

And thank you. Thank you, Maureen, from me too. Well, Neil.

Neil De Beer (00:49.292)

Yeah, yeah, everyone’s support.

Chris Steyn (00:53.22)

Minister Pieter Groenewald is gatvol of Helen Zille. Tell us about it.

Neil De Beer (01:00.192)

Yeah, I think the song Wrecking Ball. Chris, this is not new. So start off there. There will always be good cop, bad cop in politics. I think the more that we talk about Helen Godzilla and we talk about the GNU, the ruptures caused, John having to go back and mend things and speak…You can either say it’s an internal tactic or it is just what it is. It is a wrecking ball scenario of people that have a conflict of opinion, not in the sense of strategy, but in the sense of approach.

So we remember the massive blow up between Helen and Cyril Ramaphosa within the GNU Talks, John having to go and say, let’s get back to business. We now find, if you remember a couple of Sundays ago, we spoke about the Freedom Front Plus in the Western Cape with Corne Mulder, remember that was an eruption that lasted two weeks where more and more the Freedom Front Plus took a negative approach to the DA style of management, the DA style of propaganda and rhetoric. And they were getting out of municipalities where they were co-governing. And Corné Mulder took a very hard stance. In actual fact, two or three municipalities did suffer the consequence.

And then we heard through the grapevine that there was going to be the call that Dr. Pieter Groenewald and John Steenhuisen would on a national level as the leaders about the DA and the Freedom Front have a discussion. We now know such discussions have taken place between the two to quell the problem on the ground. Not that the ground necessarily is listening to what the heavens are saying.

And we now find that the fight did not stop. There was a continual still rumbling on the ground in the municipalities. And now we get this massive media statement leaked. What is leaked and what is not? yeah, leaked. yeah, yeah. Oops, WhatsAppie? And then they’ll send it back and say, can you delete it was the wrong number. But you’ve already screen-shotted that story. So…

Neil De Beer (03:25.804)

Peter Groenewald now makes a statement in saying can Helen Zille stay the hell out of the progress that is being made between the Freedom Front Plus and the leadership of the DA. So the apparent scenario is Helen on a certain event last week again makes the statement that there are certain Freedom Front plus leadership that have gone rogue, that are absolutely fighting the national system of the Freedom Front Plus and that is the suffering of the consequence. And Peter Groenwald, as you know the Doc, will not take that on the chin because he is a person that commands his structure in his way. So there we have it, the unsettling again of the rumour of this wrecking ball, Helen, who as we know, and we don’t have to expose that, has got a very, very specific way of dealing and handling matters.

But it seems, Chris, that continually, when the volcano is just about to settle and that we are getting molted lava to come down to turn to absolute foundation, Gaboom! We have the volcanic eruption of Helen coming in. And this is forming a pattern, it seems. So we’ve got to watch and see if they can patch it up again.

Chris Steyn (04:56.194)

Because he’s suggesting that she is breaking down what they are trying to build up. And if she’s not fighting with him, she’s fighting with Herman Mashaba or with Fikile Mbalula.

Neil De Beer (05:07.554)

Yeah, his words in Afrikaans was, And that is his statement. again, Chris, let’s stand back again, knowing politics, understanding that dirty game. Is it a back end strategy? So one will never know unless you delve deeper, which we can. Is it a strategy to say that one fixes, one breaks, one unsettles, one mends? But if it is the strategy, I must tell you it’s not a good strategy for citizen X currently everywhere where we need stability. So we’ll watch that story as it grows.

Neil De Beer (06:00.87)

Well, strategy at this moment, and I’ll tell it to you straight, every political party currently is going into 2026 mode. Everything they do today, everything they’re saying today is moving away from the, can I call it, ra-ra, hoo-hoo, band scenario of the greatness of the GNU, which is holding, which is bringing a certain amount of, can I call it, economic stability. On the BizNews week, we saw a lot of people, Magnus Heystek, the people coming in and saying, we can’t deny that there are certain ups within the economy. Fuel prices down, inflation is going okay. We’re trying to get to 2% and keep it stable. So economically, the business whisperings are not negative.

But we are saying that at the end of the day, we’ll talk about it later in the show, the current divorce of leadership in GNU to party leadership with different manifesto. So Freedom Front Plus is talking, DA is talking, to start setting up local government strategy for 2026. And the only people that are currently benefiting, I’m sorry, are the people juggling now to get their positions ready.

Read more: RW Johnson: GNU must sober up; no economic growth without policy changes

Chris Steyn (07:17.53)

And not the rate payers who are waiting for these political battles to be settled so that services can be delivered. Not so Neil.

Neil De Beer (07:25.666)

Well….they don’t actually give a toss. That was a bleep moment…the normal human being on the street when you go to the braai and you have your Ulofberg and you sit down and we chat. They don’t actually care what happens in the halls of power…They talk about removal of rubbish. They talk about filling potholes. They care about cutting the lawns. They care about water and sanitation. They want to understand that the sewage is done. They want electricity. They want the street lights to work and they want to understand that they live in a safe environment. That’s it Chris. They don’t want to get involved in power mongering and power playing, they pay their rates, they pay their taxes, they want return of investment. Now when you pay your investment, which is your rates and taxes, you accept at least someone’s going to turn up and do those services. But what you’re finding in Tshwane, what you’re finding in Joburg, what you’re now getting in Ekurhuleni, what you’re getting in eThekwini, is that the poor rate payer, he pays his bill in the hope that he is going to get his services. And until the politicians in this country does not get it, that the people come first, not the politician. That’s why Chris, you can see that he is very smart. That’s why they are called public servants, public servant, not public worker, public official. No, no, you’re a public servant from the top of serenity to the bottom guy that picks up your trash. They are in service of our public. And that’s where we’ve got to go back. So they can juggle for what they want. They can move around. They are moving deck chairs on the Titanic. And again, when two bulls fight, the grass bloody suffers. So we hope that the citizens will get up and have more voice and I’m fully for that. So yeah, let’s see how this turns out.

Chris Steyn (10:05.24)

Now, Neil, talking about rates and taxes, now we have a disgruntled former Democratic Alliance MP. He was there for a few minutes, Renaldo Gouws On X now, Confessions of a Former Politician. I’m on number Seven now. But the one that stands out to me is where he says that there are so many councillors and MPLs and MPs who are not paying their rates and taxes, but their lights and water stay on because they’re politicians. Did you see that?

Neil De Beer (10:43.17)

He’s leaking like an old silver bucket with many holes. Chris, this is the story of life. The disgruntled worker, the disgruntled employee, the disgruntled family member. You go to a party, they gave you no cake. Everybody else goes and automatically you go tell the rest of the people it was the worst cake ever. Listen. He’s pumping it out at the moment. And I’m telling you, hy is bitter like an aloe plant. Listen, he’s leaking. I see the latest one this morning. Yeah, I don’t know. You know, I told you my relationship with Ronaldo is zero. He had never good opinion about me, but I must tell you.

Chris Steyn (11:18.114)

Wow, he’s bitter. He’s bitter.

Chris Steyn (11:24.57)

Neil De Beer (11:37.614)

I looked at hi m in many cases and his way of doing things. I must tell you, you’ve got to give him kudos for the kind of branding he’s got, like it or not. But the latest one this morning was him talking about a certain premier in a certain province of, can only imagine what party, was an alcoholic.

Chris Steyn (11:55.323)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Neil De Beer (12:02.762)

And that even in the day that he won his election, he was too drunk to come and do his speech. So Ronaldo goes…watch this thing. The epitome of the exposure just going on. But I love it when he says, but he’s not doing that in jest. You know, he’s not doing it to ruin or to harm anybody. And then he writes 16 pages. So, yeah, I think a couple of more surprises, you know, he attacked Helen Zille this past week on her apparent lie on the Gareth Cliff show when she said that their DC, their disciplinary scenario, whatever they call it, the federal legal system, that they say that Helen said that the majority of the panel said that he should be removed. And Ronaldo says it’s a blatant lie because he got the document that says that it was a three-person panel and in actual fact two of the three said that he should not be removed as a DA member but that certain things should be done in discipline. So I don’t think that fight is over and the thing is as this river goes down it’s not just dragging water it’s bringing trees and rocks and timber. So I look forward to probably the next 12 of them.

Chris Steyn (13:32.954)

Yeah, and probably a few dead bodies coming down the river as well. Well, Neil, by the end of this week, we should know who the next mayor of Tshwane is going to be. At the moment, it’s a toss between the African National Congress’ person and ActionSA’s, but then the Democratic Alliance’s Cilliers Brink could make a comeback. What do you think?

Neil De Beer (14:00.942)

So 26 September, we all remember that day, Cilliers Brink removed. And the continual build up to that removal was in itself its own orchestrated circus, because we had Action SA fighting Cilliers, Cilliers fighting ANC, ANC fighting itself, Lesufi, Gauteng, National. But the end result is Cilliers Brink removed.

Now since that day, 26th, they had to within 14 days appoint a new mayor. Now here’s the scenario. Here’s the puppets and here’s the masters. Herman Mashaba, as we know him, I call him Mr. I and Me, comes out and says that he is going to remove Cilliers and that their mayoral candidate will be the mayoral candidate and it will be accepted by the ANC. So that was the plan. Now they can spin this. They can go do it. I’ve watched two weeks of every platform where they have come, that’s Action SA, and said they’ve done that and they’ve done this and then a day later they say we’ve done this – and that you’ve seen. It, it’s been a litany of massive statements, first to justify the removal of CIlliers, and now we find that Action SA, in its effect, has come to the point where it seems there’s no longer that huge confidence that the ANC is going to back their mayoral candidate. It now seems the ANC saying it’s going to be our candidate. And then once the ANC got up and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we did not agree that when we remove Cilliers, it will be an ActionSA mayor. Immediately, ActionSA said, but wait a minute, if they are going to field a mayor, we might break away from them as well. So you are now finding ActionSA sitting in a position where we now find out there was no contract, there was no agreement pre-removal of Cilliers Brink. So they went in there, removed him, and now they’re sitting, this is ActionSA in my opinion, and they’ve got to wait and negotiate wherever they can.

Read more: John Matisonn: Lesufi for President? Seriously?

But I don’t think it’s going to bode well because what the ANC wanted, they are going to get. That’s the first point. Now we had Lesufi coming up on radio and absolutely denying that he had a hand in this, that he was against National, that he was the one that gave the instruction for the removal or the approval. And I’m telling you, another man asked me what was your opinion and I said to him, OJ Simpson, the glove doesn’t fit moment. So there you’ve got Lesoufi on a national radio station last week saying, I am not guilty. I am shocked and surprised. And then he says, when all of this took place, he was overseas. The glove doesn’t fit. That’s what he says. Now, when you’re going to believe that, then I’m sorry. You are then going to still believe in Saint Nicholas coming down one of these chimneys in the middle of New Year or Christmas and that we have people that says a bunny can deliver chocolate eggs. But he sat in defiance and then they say to him, and by the way, Premier, do you want to become president of the Republic? And he says, absolutely not. I have no presidential attachments. I am too young. And by the way, I supported Cyril Ramaphosa. But what he doesn’t tell you is he might be supporting Cyril Ramaphosa, but Cyril is leaving. So when he leaves, who’s he then going to support? He didn’t want to answer that question. So again, Gauteng, Lesufi standing there and saying, I’m not the puppet master. I just follow orders. Chris, I’m not buying it. I’m not drinking that Oros with double ice and water. So here we go.

Neil De Beer (18:53.546)

So, here we go, rumors of still the discussion…remember Helen saying She wants the ANC to bring back Cilliers She she’s requesting, nay starting to demand it, and we don’t know what is the final say about what’s happening behind the screens? We know it’s happening on the discussions of GNU level coming down to the GLU level and saying, will the ANC turn and back the DA? In returning a mayor, I believe not.

Chris Steyn (19:23.808)

Mm.

Chris Steyn (19:31.655)

Well, Neil, now we also have AfriForum wanting the DA and Vryheids Front Plus to leave the GNU if the BELA Bills  is not changed before it’s signed into law. Are they saying unless Afrikaner schools are protected, the GNU should implode? Is that the bottom line?

Neil De Beer (19:54.894)

You know, Chris, I’m sorry, but we’re getting it right again. You know, probably out of 10 affirmations that we bring up in a week, I think our strike rate at this moment is about 80%. We get some wrong, but here we go again. I told our people, our viewers, I said, they’re to sign the BELA Bill. And once they’ve signed it, remember, 80% of the law, 80% is possession, 20% is argument. So once they sign it, they are in possession. We then get told as a calming factor, which I did not buy, I said that here, that they would look at clause four and five and that Afriforum and Solidariteit and the DA and everybody that was vehemently against the BELA Bill, that that would be the piecemeal; that we’lll sign it, but we will debate four and five. And in illustrious position, we are being told by the people in the GNU that oppose the BELA Bill, yeah, but he’s willing to talk. Okay, so they sign it, pomp and ceremony, and now we’re waiting for this negotiation about four and five, where it was stated that that would be discussed before implementation. Chris?

This week, up till this point, AfriForum comes up and says there has been no negotiation. There’s not even been a telephone call. And when you look, I think it’s Kallie Kriel that made the statement on behalf of AfriForum. You can actually see the disappointment in this man’s face because I think they truly thought that they could trust Cyril Ramaphosa on his word. And now he makes the statement to say, well, if they are not going to see us, because he actually makes the point of saying they sabotage. He mentions it in his statement that there are people within the Department of Education, that there are people within the GNU that are absolutely trying to sabotage the negotiations on those clauses to give a little bit of leeway in the BELA Bill.

Neil De Beer (22:19.958)

And now he says, and if they don’t, he will continue and his management to ask that the DA and the Freedom Front Plus, very weird, always the DA and the Freedom Front Plus, not the PA, not the IFP, not the UDM, not the Good Party, not RISE Mzansi, no, no, no, always the DA and the Freedom Front Plus that he will ask them to actually remove themselves from the GNU. I’ll say it again, koeël is deur die kerk, milk in the mud, gras is cut. This is not going to be changed and we told them so. They are not going to follow their policy, they are going to listen to ANC policy.

Chris Steyn (37:06.166)

Thank you. That was Neil de Beer on The Sunday Show with BizNews and I am Chris Steyn

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