Politics tamfitronics
John Fetterman was angry.
The Democratic senator from Pennsylvania was readying to speak at a disaster response press conference in Bucks County on July 16, 2023, just hours after flooding in Upper Makefield that ultimately killed seven people. Local officials spoke for a few minutes to offer an initial update for the assembled press. Then, Gov. Josh Shapiro provided information on what his administration was doing to respond to the emergency.
After a few minutes, Shapiro tossed the microphone back to the local responders — not Fetterman. Moments later, the event wrapped without Fetterman ever speaking.
Already deeply skeptical of Shapiro, Fetterman swore off appearing at events alongside the governor going forward, as three sources familiar with the incident told NBC News.
Fetterman went “through four or five rounds of prep on the run of show for that,” one source said. “And [Shapiro] just sidestepped it completely. After that, John [said]: ‘If there’s an event where he’s going to be there, I don’t want to do it.’”
A person familiar with the event said the idea Shapiro intentionally sidestepped Fetterman was “inaccurate.”
“When it came to providing updates in the face of this emergency, local officials were leading the response and determined the run of show,” this person said.
The episode highlighted what has become an increasingly volatile relationship between Pennsylvania’s two most ambitious elected officials. It’s a Democratic Party rivalry that is suddenly spilling out into full view and has the potential to shape state politics — and maybe even the national political scene — for years to come.
Earlier this month, as Vice President Kamala Harris was wrapping up her search for a running mate and was considering Shapiro among her final choices, Politico reported that Fetterman aides told Harris’ team the senator had concerns about Shapiro. Days later, Fetterman sat stone-faced with his arms crossed as Shapiro delivered a rousing speech at the Philadelphia rally where Harris introduced Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her No. 2. Seated among a delegation of Pennsylvania politicians right in front of the press section, the 6-foot-8 Fetterman stood out as a lone member who did not join in the clapping and cheering for Shapiro.
“For most PA politicos, it’s pretty well known that the two clashed,” one Pennsylvania Democrat said. “It was obvious that those two were always on the collision course and the only thing that kept them apart was that they were going for different types of offices.”
“It almost feels like our dirty laundry is being let out to air,” this person added.
The news conference incident last year is also not the first example of Fetterman withdrawing from events with other officials over a perceived slight, according to two people with direct knowledge of another episode. In the early days of the pandemic, Fetterman, then Pennsylvania’s lieutenant governor, participated in a daily staff call with top officials in then-Gov. Tom Wolf’s administration. After days of raising criticisms about how Wolf’s staff was handling state-controlled liquor stores and flagging tweets suggesting the administration was falling short in its coronavirus response, Wolf told Fetterman to essentially chill out. Fetterman stopped appearing on the calls afterward, both people said.
NBC News spoke with 12 people familiar with the Fetterman-Shapiro relationship from different perspectives, most of whom were granted anonymity to speak candidly about a sensitive matter featuring two powerful figures. In Pennsylvania, no two elected officials have seen their fortunes improve or their national prominence grow more in the Donald Trump era, rising from a county commission and a small-town mayorship on opposite sides of the state to become the commonwealth’s most recognizable political heavyweights, just as Pennsylvania has become the biggest swing state on the map.
‘Like oil and water’
Both are seen to harbor future presidential ambitions, while carving out unique paths to the top of the state’s pecking order. For Fetterman, he ran a failed 2016 Senate bid as an acolyte of Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., garnering national attention for his persona and appearance, before winning a campaign for lieutenant governor championing marijuana legalization and criminal justice reform and then capturing a Senate seat in 2022 after a campaign in which he suffered a stroke and was off the trail for months.
Shapiro’s rise was more methodical, serving as a congressional staffer, state representative, county commissioner and state attorney general before winning the governorship. Along the way, he outran other Democrats who shared the ballot with him and generated headlines for battling Trump’s effort to overturn the 2020 election in Pennsylvania and for his probe of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
“It’s like oil and water,” a person familiar with the relationship said. “They are very different people. Western PA versus Eastern PA. Buttoned-up and slick versus hoodies and I shoot the s— whenever I want to.”
Fetterman and his allies have pointed to a dispute when both served on the state’s Board of Pardons as the origin of their falling-out. As lieutenant governor, Fetterman’s role on the board was one of the biggest parts of his job, and he viewed his work there as some of the most important in his career. He and Shapiro, who was state AG at the time, differed on some pardon recommendations, and at one point, Fetterman made what was seen as a threat to run against Shapiro for governor in 2022.
Wolf, who led the state at the time, had to intervene in the dispute after Fetterman “kind of forced a meeting,” a person with direct knowledge of the matter said. This person said that Shapiro felt he had incomplete information on the cases Fetterman wanted him to support and that Fetterman pressed repeatedly for the pardons to be approved.
Multiple people said the feud appears to be much more about Fetterman training his ire at Shapiro than the other way around, particularly as the senator has taken public steps — like sitting while Shapiro spoke at the rally and talking about their dispute on the state pardons board — to express his displeasure while Shapiro has not. Two unconnected Pennsylvania Democrats separately compared the ordeal to a popular meme from the hit TV show “Mad Men,” in which one person standing in an elevator criticizes Don Draper, the series’ main character, who responds, “I don’t think about you at all.”
“I don’t think Josh has a rivalry with Fetterman,” said Larry Ceisler, a Democratic public affairs executive in Pennsylvania and longtime observer of both men. “I think Fetterman has an obsession with Josh.”
“I wouldn’t be surprised, just like any politician, that John Fetterman thinks he can run for president one day,” Ceisler added. “So he probably thinks Josh is a potential rival. … I’ve never heard Josh speak dismissively or negatively about Fetterman. Never.”
Still, some said the feud runs both ways, adding the pardons episode is just a small piece of the fuller picture.
“This is just two guys who hate each other,” a second person familiar with the relationship said. “It’s an old-school political rivalry. It’s not anything even deeper than that, it’s just an old-school, interstate political rivalry between two up-and-coming guys who both want to be president.”
“They have just a very personal animosity,” the first person familiar with the relationship said. “And it goes both ways, not just a one-way street.”
‘It really sucks’
At the Harris-Walz rally in Philadelphia last week, Fetterman’s visible displeasure with Shapiro during his speech was noticeable to those seated near him, one person in his vicinity said. Shapiro drew loud applause as he said he would “pour my heart and soul into serving you every single day as your governor” and would work “to make sure we make Kamala Harris and Tim Walz the next leaders of the United States of America.”
The person who described the Fetterman-Shapiro relationship as “like oil and water” said they worried Fetterman’s unenthusiastic response would make it appear he was not stoked for Harris’ campaign, which was not true.
“You’ve got a crowd of 12,000 people screaming their lungs out for Josh Shapiro, and John’s going to make a statement there,” this person said.
Speaking on MSNBC one day after the rally, Fetterman said in response to questions about the Politico story that he “never directed” his aides to advise Harris’ team of his concerns about Shapiro, and he said his dispute with the governor was centered on their time on the state Board of Pardons.
“I just don’t understand why we’re talking about a choice that was already made,” he said, trying to move past the storyline after Walz’s selection, adding, “[W]hy are we talking about this weird stuff?”
Pressed that same day on the subject, Shapiro told reporters: “I have never played small ball. I am not going to start now.”
Reached for comment for this article, Shapiro’s office directed NBC News to those public comments the governor made last week. Fetterman’s office declined to comment on the relationship between the two men.
Some Democrats who spoke with NBC News expressed concerns that the beef could impede the state party’s efforts in the general election, though others said this would not make a discernible difference for the top of the ticket.
“We’re all committed to electing Kamala Harris as president of the United States along with Governor Walz as her vice president,” state Sen. Sharif Street, chair of the state Democratic Party, said, adding, “Look, I think Senator Fetterman is a man who speaks his mind, and he’ll continue to do that. And I’ll tell you, I think he’s going to play a big part in making sure that Vice President Harris and Governor Walz are president and vice president.”
Both men have sought to build their brands among elected officials in the state. Since his election as governor, Shapiro’s in-state popularity — his poll numbers have eclipsed Fetterman’s, multiple surveys show — and his campaigning in key down-ballot races have won him goodwill among elected officials in the state. Fetterman, armed with a substantial campaign email list, has sought to boost other Pennsylvania Democrats by taking an active role in fundraising for them.
Then there was Shapiro’s rise to national prominence as part of the Democratic veepstakes.
“There’s a different version of this reality where [Fetterman] could have been in the conversation to be a running mate for Kamala Harris,” said the person who described Fetterman and Shapiro as akin to “oil and water.”
The two men haven’t always been at odds. As The Associated Press reported in 2022, Fetterman hosted a 2016 fundraiser for Shapiro at his home in Braddock. When they shared a statewide ticket two years ago, they linked up for a coordinated effort backed by national Democratic campaign organizations. But in the final days of the 2022 campaign, the duo made few appearances together.
“I’ve never even seen them talk to each other,” said state Rep. Dan Miller, a Democrat from Fetterman’s home county, adding that he couldn’t speak to their relationship as a result.
Democratic insiders also expressed little hope that the relationship could be improved, which they said would benefit the rest of the party in Pennsylvania.
“It would be really nice if this wasn’t a problem,” a Democratic strategist in Pennsylvania said. “It just sucks. It really sucks.”
Shapiro and Fetterman have almost never appeared at the same event since that July 2023 press conference, which was led by local officials. Shapiro spoke because his administration was involved in the state response.
During his remarks that day, Shapiro said the moment “calls on all of us to come together.” He also thanked Fetterman for being present.
When the news conference ended, Shapiro passed Fetterman on his way out of the room. The two appeared to pause for a brief exchange. Then they went their separate ways.
Allan Smith
Allan Smith is a political reporter for NBC News.
