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In his second interview with BizNews, the real founder of uMkhonto weSizwe Party (MKP), Jabulani Khumalo, bluntly calls Advocate Dali Mpofu a liar for claiming that he secretly set up MKP with former President Jacob Zuma. However, he says Mpofu was part of a plot to hijack the party he had founded. He also describes how he had guns pointed at him twice after false claims that he was going to deregister MKP. He speaks of how Zuma is making “all these mistakes” because he is bitter and angry – especially at President Cyril Ramaphosa. Khumalo is outraged at the corruption accused in MKP’s top structure – and says they are not in MK to work for the people. “They are in there to fight their battles”. As for the Government of National Unity (GNU), Khumalo says: “For me, it’s a joke. People of South Africa need a government that is clean…GNU is doing nothing for the people. They are only trying to safeguard their positions in the government.”
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.136)
Advocate Dali Mpofu’s defection from the Economic Freedom Fighters to MKP is trending today. We speak to the real founder of MKP, Mr. Jabulani Khumalo. Welcome, Sir.
Happy Khumalo (00:18.734)
Good afternoon, Ma’am, and good afternoon to the viewers.
Chris Steyn (00:27.808)
So I saw that Advocate Mpofu claimed that he secretly set up MK with former President Jacob Zuma. I’m sure you have something to say about that.
Happy Khumalo (00:42.926)
Definitely. Advocate Dali Mpofu, I think I would say bluntly that he’s a liar.
Dali Mpofu was not part of the formation of uMkhonto weSizwe Party. Maybe he’s talking about the uMkhonto weSizwe Veterans. Maybe he was part of that, but not the MK Party.
The MK Party was formed by myself with other six comrades who I was consulting with when we wanted to start the registration of the party.
Mr Mpofu only came in when we were having, I think, a meeting after the launch in Hyde Park at Mr Zuma’s daughter’s house. That’s when Zuma introduced me to Mr. Mpofu, that this is the man that registered uMkhonto weSizwe. And that’s when we started to engage about the formation of uMkhonto weSizwe. He was never there. He was nowhere until at that time.
And the second time we met was in Pietermaritzburg, when he was preparing for the case to go and to defend Mr. Zuma for his case.
From there we were meeting, because he attended all our meetings. He was there. He became a member of uMkhonto weSizwe even before he joined uMkhonto weSizwe because most of the time, every time we had our meeting he was there. And sometimes Mr. Zuma would ask him to share the meetings, but he was never a founder or anything like that.
Chris Steyn (02:41.612)
Now, Sir, do you think he was part of the plot to hijack your party?
Happy Joy (02:48.098)
Definitely, definitely. Zuma and Mpofu and some other comrades within uMkhonto weSizwe that joined us. In actual fact, the people that joined us were the ones that were plotting to hijack uMkhonto weSizwe. They started this a long time ago. I could feel it and I could tell, but I was not silent. I’ve always asked questions. If there’s something wrong that I see that is not okay, I will ask them, why is this being happening? And Mr. Zuma will always tell me, don’t worry, we’ll sort it out. Don’t get angry.
But what is happening now is showing exactly the things that I was feeling that there was something fishy happening. And Mr. Mpofu was part of the whole plot.
In actual fact, at some point I thought he was working towards destroying MK Party. And what happened is that they ganged up against me and said that I want to derigister uMkhonto weSizwe. They called me to Nkandla. When I got there, there was a lot of people, even other people who were driving cars using blue lights when they were not police. And on that day, that’s the day when they pointed guns on me. In the actual fact, they had chased on me on my car, banging my car with guns, and all of that in Eshowe.
When I was called, because Mr. Zuma on that day called me because he said they told him I want to deregister uMkhonto weSizwe. Then I went to his house. We had some discussions and he said to me, please add some people into the CIPRO, not CIPRO document, into IEC document on the founding members. I said to him, who are those people? He gave me the names. Then on the letter,
Happy Khumalo (05:07.116)
he put a wrong name. It said J.B. Khumalo. I said, no, no, no, I’m not J.B. Kumalo. I won’t sign this document. Then because of that, we had to drive to Eshowe to get that fixed, that initials. Then the electricity was gone. And I ended on that day, I had to be leaving KZN for Johannesburg.
But when we got to Eshowe, that’s where they started pointing guns on me and using blue lights.
And from there, that’s when I saw there was a problem. And I went back to Zuma and I said to him, I’ve been pointed at gunpoint and all of that. What do you say? He said to me, don’t get angry. You must be cool all the time.
So, and that was not the last. Again it happened, but I just kept quiet and then they hijacked the party.
And if you could see now, all the people that are in the MK party, they were never there. They never cared about MK. The people that cared about MK, who did the motorcades and all of that, they are forgotten now. They are far from MK. When they talk, when they ask questions, they are told to leave the MK. When those people used their own money to make sure that MK goes to where it is now, the people that are leading MK now never even put a cent for any programmes of the MK party up until election. Even on the eve of the elections, you’ll go to the voting stations, those people that are now called the rebellions against MK, they were there using their money to feed the party agents, to drive party agents from point A to point B. And the people that are there now, they are in Parliament. They are now honourables. But did they do anything about MK? No, they didn’t. But because they are cronies of Jacob Zuma, they are now in Parliament. And the people that were fired from Parliament, the 18 people….
Happy Khumalo (07:30.726)
They’ve done nothing, nothing at all. Just because Zuma wanted his friends to be in Parliament, to be so-called honourables, he fired those guys. He fired in actual everybody that was in the formation of uMkhonto weSizwe. Those people that were fighting to get uMkhonto weSizwe to where it is, he fired them. Everybody that is… Yes.
Happy Khumalo (08:05.198)
What they’re saying that these people that they fire, they’re saying they are Khumalo’s, what you call it, comrades. When these people, came and joined MK because they loved MK. And people voted because of those people. They saw those people on the list, they voted and they said, these are people who want them to go to Parliament and help us. Today, those people are called thugs by people who were not even anywhere when the uMkhonto weSizwe was formed.
Chris Steyn (08:45.058)
So who is the real power now in MK and the real power behind MK?
Happy Birthday (08:53.07)
No one.
The MK doesn’t have a head, doesn’t have leadership. It needs leadership. There’s no leadership in the MK. It’s just a hollow party for now. Shame to those who are leaving Malema because they think that when coming to MK, they’ll find a leadership. There’s no leadership. In actual fact, MK is collapsing because the people that are there, they don’t have the interest of the people of South Africa. They have their own interests. They’ve got their own agendas. They’re not working for South African people. South Africa, we’ve got a problem of thuggarims. We’ve got a problem of extortion. People who are taking money to say, I will secure you if you pay me. And there are some people that are paying certain people now to keep their positions, which is very wrong. And MK was not formed to make certain people rich, but that is what is happening now. People are jumping into MK because they’re saying it’s a free ride. As long as we are close to Zuma, then you must ride into MK. Then you’ll get a position and then they will fire someone that is supposed to be there with the right position.
So that is a problem.
Chris Steyn (10:28.354)
So you don’t have much faith in the future of MKP as it is now, despite Floyd Shivambo and others joining.
Happy Khumalo (10:40.014)
I pity Floyd Shivambo. He should have stayed with Malema. They could be able to raise or grow their party. They’re trying to finish EFF.
But let me say this, when we started MK Party, we had discussions – that was in July – that we want to talk to all the African parties to join forces so that we become one voice. And we started that and Zuma was championing that. And I had no problem with that. I was happy. The meeting started and they were attending those meetings.
One of the boys that was attending was Muzi Ntshingila was attending those meetings because we wanted to say before the elections, let’s join hands, let’s come together. When we go to the elections, we are in one voice so that we take over the Government and start fixing the country because we believe that, as African parties, we are having the same agenda of liberating our country to get the freedom. But that did not happen.
And what is happening now…The champion of that problem is now taking people from these parties and moving them to MK. Instead of creating a home for everybody, a one party that is stronger in South Africa, is now destroying the other parties.
People are moving from EFF, from all these other small parties into MK. Instead of creating a strong party in the MK, they are also again making sure that they are destroying people that they find in the MK. They’re fighting with them, they tell them to leave the MK if they don’t listen to them. What is that? We are not building, we are destroying.
Chris Steyn (12:55.544)
Sir, I remember you telling me that it was a huge issue for you to keep people linked to corruption out of MK. And once the party was out of your hands, then that started happening. People who had been accused of corruption were brought in.
Rejoice and be happy (13:18.114)
Well, I think the whole of the top structure of MK is with those people. They are the ones that have taken over, but they are not in MK to assist or to work for the people. They are in there to fight their battles. You can see now others are applying to impeach the former judge Mogoeng Mogoeng because of one of their own problems that they had.
That’s not what MK is about. MK was formed to liberate the people, to make sure that the African people get what they’ve always as ked, that the leadership or the power of, or the parties must do in Parliament to change the laws that are keeping them in the bushes there, keeping them in the dark, no water, no lights, no food, and we are losing. Even the agriculture is dead. Our people are hungry because there is no party that is looking after those things.
Water is essential for our people, but no party is working towards making sure that they get the solution to get water to the people.
Electricity is so expensive. Our people are only earning 2,500 rand. Where, how are they going to buy electricity where you pay 1000 rand and you get only 71 units for 500 rand. So it means that person must pay electricity and he must not eat because he used all the 2,500 to buy the electricity. That is a problem.
The water, our people are drinking dirty water. I can tell you something in Mpumalanga. The water is smelling. We’ve got parties. We’ve got people like Dali Mpofu who are coming up and lying to people that he was a founder. He’s supposed to be talking about what needs to happen to assist the people of South Africa to get clean water, not to drink smelling water from the tap. You know, it’s even better for those people who are getting the water from the river.
Happy Joy (15:40.376)
But you are getting water from the tap and it’s smelling. You can’t even when you’re bath, it gives you bad bubbles. It’s crazy.
But we have people that are taking over MK and they want to fight their battles.
They want like this, that white man now who has a four million scam diamonds. He’s saying openly, he’s giving people money. What is that money for? What was it to be used for? If we took those millions and gave it to a company to build boreholes in the rural areas to get people to get water, and if we went to China and bought what we call this thing for the lights, for the electricity, to get people to get lights, those monies would have made a difference in our country. It is not making difference because they’re giving them to certain people to make their lavish life, to get a happy and do whatever they want to do. And then after that they come back and then fight against the people who wants to make difference in the communities.
By the way, just on Saturday, somebody told me that I was in Kumasi in Mpumalanga. I’ve never been there. But they told me I gave those people boreholes alongside with Malema. And I’m still looking for Mr. Malema’s cell phone, so I need to call him and say, bro, you said you gave people boreholes and you were with me. Can we do it now? I think let’s do it in reality because people are saying that we did it. Now let’s do it. Because those people, need water. Maybe that was a prophecy that we must go there together and do it. I’m challenging Mr. Malema, or I’m asking him to come with me. Those people must take us to Kumasi and we must give them the boreholes. We must find money and give them the boreholes. Because people in South Africa need boreholes now. Everywhere, we don’t have water. People need water.
Chris Steyn (18:04.364)
Sir, have you had any contact with Mr. Zuma since you lost the party?
Rejoice and be happy (18:11.34)
Well, we had contact through family, not in person, no, not anymore.
Chris Steyn (18:19.416)
And what has his attitude been towards you?
Rejoice and be happy (18:23.872)
He is bitter. Zuma is always bitter. And he said he will die bitter and die angry. And that is why he’s making all these mistakes, because he’s angry. When you are angry, you don’t think right. You don’t think straight. So if he wants to die angry, he will never sort out the problems of South Africa. And we thought that he will do better for this country, but he will never do that, because he’s angry. You can’t do anything when you are angry.
Chris Steyn (18:58.038)
What is his anger all about?
Happy Joy (19:02.892)
I wish I could find out. Because every time he talks about Ramaphosa, talks about that, that and that that. Everyone that he worked with and there was anything that happened, he’s angry about that. He’s never finished. So I don’t know when is he going to stop or will ever get cooled down to say, now I’m no longer angry to anybody. But he’s angry, very angry to Ramaphosa. In actual fact, I know that many people are angry at Ramaphosa, but I think he’s the most angrier to Ramaphosa.
Chris Steyn (19:40.152)
How do you feel about the Government of National Unity?
Happy Joy (19:45.486)
I think it’s a joke. For me, it’s a joke. People of South Africa need a government that is clean, a government that needs to work towards helping them. GNU has done nothing for the people. They are only trying to safeguard their positions in the government. They only making noise in the Parliament.
There is not one single programme since they’ve been together as a GNU.
Not one. Steenhuisen is a Minister of Agriculture. Agriculture is dead. Since he came in, I’ve never seen even one project that he has sponsored. Not one. Or him going to the agricultural land, seeing people doing things, helping the people. No.
I feel that South Africa needs people that love people of South Africa. People that have a heart to assist, not people who want to be named honourable and then they stay in those air-conditioned offices and everything. People, when you are a minister, you must go down.
I’ve been running around the country. I have seen all government agricultural land is dead. The cows, there is no cows, the grass is high. Even the tractors are standing there, you can see, but there’s nothing happening. People have land, they need seeds, there are no seeds anymore. Before, people were getting seeds to plough. Now, no one is doing that.
We have a Department of Agriculture and people are busy hiring their own people because when you get in you want your own people that will say Baas to you or Baba to you. Those are things that people are concerned about. They are not concerned about the real issues of the people. That is why I’m saying GNU will never work and I don’t think it will ever.
Chris Steyn (22:09.356)
Sir, what does the future hold for you? You are still fighting legal battles.
Rejoice and rejoice (22:16.578)
Well, yes. And I want to say that I don’t know in English how I can put it, but in my culture, when you want your stick to be stronger, you hide it somewhere and keep it there. Because the day you take it out is the day you are going to make a difference with it. So I’m waiting for that day and I’m working on that day to have that day. And that would be the day that would change South Africa.
Chris Steyn (22:50.754)
Thank you. That was the real founder of MKP, Mr. Jabulani Khumalo speaking to BizNews, and I’m Chris Steyn.
Read also:
- MK founder spills the beans, unmasks Zuma’s real agenda…
- Zuma-backed MK party proposes tax hikes ahead of SA elections
- Helen Zille: Down to the wire getting GNU done – now we must exercise patience for it to work
